Tuner for Non-DVR use

[Sagarious]

I am new to the entire HTPC and CableCard/Tuner world. I have what I would think would be a common situation that many of the users here may have the answer whether it is possible or not.

I am a Comcast customer, and I despise the DTA box and remote that is required at every secondary TV in the house that does not have a full digital HD or DVR box. I have about 4 other locations around the house where I simply want to access the basic channels CNN, Comedy Central, ESPN, etc. Comcast in my area now charges $2.00 per box so I'm looking at about an extra $8 a month just to have TV's around the house that can access basic cable. I'm not even necessarily looking at DVR functions or programming guides. Just access to "regular old" cable TV without needing a second remote and DTA box. I wired my house to have a coax jack and power outlet at wall-mounting height for newer TV's, I want a clean flat screen TV mounted on the wall and I want to be able to just use that TV remote to change channels (and use SmartTV functions if the TV is capable). Call me crazy, but I do think one remote for each TV should be an option.

My question is simply, is this even possible in today's world? I was able to get someone confused enough at Comcast to give me 3 cableCards free of charge. I did this because my initial research told me I could just find cableCard compatible Televisions and stick the card directly into each TV. Turns out they don't make too many new TV's that have cableCard slots on them anymore. That is when I started looking into the entire HTPC and Tuner world. As attractive as it is to set up an entirely new system in the house and have access to DVR and all it's functionality, the reality is in my guest bedroom, I just simply want a TV with standard cable and one remote. I don't want to buy an extender or xbox for a spare bedroom that only gets used a few times a year, but I would like it to have cable access without spending $2 a month on a DTA and having to hide the box behind the TV and deal with two remotes.

Are these TV Tuners, Ceton, Silicon Dust, etc. capable of being put in a coax cable line somewhere in the house without being directly hooked to a PC or even put on a network? Is it possible to simply take the tuner, insert a cableCard to unscramble/decode the signal, and send that signal through a standard coax cable unscrambled? That way I can use the cableCards (no monthly charge) inside a tuner (one time cheap purchase) in my basement where the lines are split, and simply send an unscrambled/decoded cable signal through the line to be used through a TV with a QAM Digital Tuner inside (Specifically a Samsung UN40ES6100: http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN4 ... FXZA-specs)

I know the user-base on this website is all about the DVR and sharing of files/video over the network, and that is not capable without an extender. But what I can't seem to find anywhere on the web is if you are not using a tuner for DVR and you just simply want to watch live TV by using a cableCard through a tuner is it possible to send that signal directly to the TV through a coax line?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[richard1980]

I'm assuming you need DTAs because your TVs lack digital tuners, so you're going to need a box at each TV, be it a regular cable box, DTA, or WMC extender. There's really no way around this unless you replace all your TVs with modern TVs that include digital tuners. Even then, you're going to be back to square one when Comcast starts encrypting all their channels (last month the FCC granted the ability to encrypt the basic tier in all-digital markets, and because Comcast led the fight, I expect them to jump on the opportunity very quickly). Of course, if you have a TV with digital tuners, you can still connect an antenna and access your local channels that are transmitted over-the-air.

So basically, in order to access the cable channels, you will end up needing a box of some kind.

[Sagarious]

Yea I guess that is my question. Although 1 of the TV's is just an old tube TV in the basement, the other is a brand new Smart TV. Hence the desire to use that and only that remote to control the TV and channels. The other two locations in my new house I haven't bought the TV's for yet because of this whole dilemma. That's why I am entertaining the thought of the HTPC and extenders, but again another box/remote will be required at every TV location. So once again, no clean-mounted TV only control. I have to have some kind of cords ran to a hidden closet with IR receiver dangling somewhere near the TV.

My frustration continues... Service providers ignore the fact that manufacturers are completely capable of building TV's with digital tuners and even cableCard slot technology that would decode their service still using their hardware. I can't believe that we live in a world where we can't just use a login to access our accounts on a Smart TV and that we still have to deal with these boxes and rental equipment.

[RyC]

With Comcast, they don't have analog above channel 32 (maybe not at all anymore) hence the need for the DTAs to get any channel above 32. It's not necessarily because the TVs don't have digital tuners.

[Sagarious]

With Comcast, they don't have analog above channel 32 (maybe not at all anymore) hence the need for the DTAs to get any channel above 32.

Right. Which is why I hoped for some device (I was hoping a Tuner with a cableCard) could be hooked up somewhere in the line and decode/unscramble the channels and send them directly though coax up to where the TV location is and have that TV (with a digital tuner) receive the signal unscrambled from the Tuner and be able to change the channels as if they were a classic analog feed. Which is my question, is that possible with any tuner/cableCard out there? or is there any similar device?

[richard1980]

With Comcast, they don't have analog above channel 32 (maybe not at all anymore) hence the need for the DTAs to get any channel above 32. It's not necessarily because the TVs don't have digital tuners.

The entire purpose of the DTA is to enable the reception of digital channels on TVs that don't have digital tuners. In layman's terms, a DTA is a stand-alone digital tuner. If the TV has a digital tuner, then no DTA is required.

the other is a brand new Smart TV

That TV should have a digital tuner onboard and should be able to tune the unencrypted Comcast channels without needing any boxes. Just connect the cable line from the wall directly to the coax input on the TV and perform a channel scan.

[RyC]

I don't think that particular scenario is possible unless you're a hotel or something, and even then, it's a lot of money. You could have a central computer with a ceton infinitv or HDHomeRun Prime which descrambles the cable with a cablecard, but you would still have to have extenders at every TV, instead of using their built in digital tuners.

[RyC]

With Comcast, they don't have analog above channel 32 (maybe not at all anymore) hence the need for the DTAs to get any channel above 32. It's not necessarily because the TVs don't have digital tuners.

The entire purpose of the DTA is to enable the reception of digital channels on TVs that don't have digital tuners. In layman's terms, a DTA is a stand-alone digital tuner. If the TV has a digital tuner, then no DTA is required.

For OTA, yes, but Comcast, in their infinite wisdom, has removed, or wants to remove, essentially all the analog channels. They're probably going to get rid of the clear qam channels soon too. In the context of Comcast, a DTA is required to watch pretty much any channel at all if you don't want a proper set top box or DVR.

[Sagarious]

That TV should have a digital tuner onboard and should be able to tune the unencrypted Comcast channels without needing any boxes. Just connect the cable line from the wall directly to the coax input on the TV and perform a channel scan.

It's my understanding that Comcast unencrypted channels are only local channels. This would not include what I would call "basic cable" which has the ESPN, FSN, Golf, Comedy Central, MTV, etc. Those channels I receive by having the DTA hooked up. Are you saying if it's a new TV it should be able to get those channels without the DTA?

[RyC]

That TV should have a digital tuner onboard and should be able to tune the unencrypted Comcast channels without needing any boxes. Just connect the cable line from the wall directly to the coax input on the TV and perform a channel scan.

It's my understanding that Comcast unencrypted channels are only local channels. This would not include what I would call "basic cable" which has the ESPN, FSN, Golf, Comedy Central, MTV, etc. Those channels I receive by having the DTA hooked up. Are you saying if it's a new TV it should be able to get those channels without the DTA?

No, you are correct. The unencrypted cable is usually only the locals. You still need the DTA or a set top box to get ESPN, FSN, etc. because you are on Comcast.

[Sagarious]

I don't suppose this in anyway goes against the Federal law of being able to provide my own equipment to receive their service.

It seems to me they only provide you with a CableCard to do so, and yet I can't find a product out there that simply uses a CableCard to decode the encrypted channels and send them to the TV without more secondary equipment.

My understanding is that you need:
A) a PC with a tuner card to take the cableCard
B) a TiVo which takes a cableCard
C) a TV made 5-6 years ago which may have a cableCard slot

[RyC]

My understanding is that you need:
A) a PC with a tuner card to take the cableCard
B) a TiVo which takes a cableCard
C) a TV made 5-6 years ago which may have a cableCard slot

Pretty much. I don't think the product you want exists (on a consumer level) because then people could circumvent the copy protection on certain channels.

Actually the TV with a cablecard slot is exactly what you want, but of course they don't make them anymore.

[Sagarious]

Pretty much. I don't think the product you want exists (on a consumer level) because then people could circumvent the copy protection on certain channels.

Well that would be a logical reason I hadn't thought of. So the DVR technology is complicating my desire for simplicity, guess I can't complain about that around here where the main concern is recordings and WMC. Although it seems like a product could be made that just deciphers the encryption and sends it back out on coax with a "No-Copy" signal, but probably not enough demand out there to justify any company actually making it.

I'm sure I'm not alone in what I want, but I would guess most people just deal with the $2 a month and crappy secondary equipment.

[richard1980]

With Comcast, they don't have analog above channel 32 (maybe not at all anymore) hence the need for the DTAs to get any channel above 32. It's not necessarily because the TVs don't have digital tuners.

The entire purpose of the DTA is to enable the reception of digital channels on TVs that don't have digital tuners. In layman's terms, a DTA is a stand-alone digital tuner. If the TV has a digital tuner, then no DTA is required.

For OTA, yes, but Comcast, in their infinite wisdom, has removed, or wants to remove, essentially all the analog channels. They're probably going to get rid of the clear qam channels soon too. In the context of Comcast, a DTA is required to watch pretty much any channel at all if you don't want a proper set top box or DVR.

It's the same concept whether we're talking about OTA or cable. But reading the other posts in this thread, I think I know what you mean. It's not about the channels being moved from analog to digital, it's about the channels being changed from unencrypted to encrypted. The DTA is able to decrypt the encrypted channels, which is something a ClearQAM tuner won't be able to do.

[RyC]

Exactly, sorry I wasn't more clear. I'm just used to using DTA in the context of Comcast since I think they're the only cable co that uses them.

[erkotz]

As others have mentioned, your options are:
1. a Used TV with a CableCARD slot (possibly a Tru2Way TV)
2. TiVo (or Moxi, but used)
3. PC with Ceton InfiniTV or similar, and then Echos or similar at each TV
4. Cable box from the operator.

[blueiedgod]

Just set up HTPC with WMC7 and windows Media Center Extenders

Linksys Media Center extenders come with programmable universal remote, so that solves your 1 remote need.

Don't use "record" button and that solves your "no DVR needed" requirement.