Basic Remote

[barnabas1969]

A question... what make/model are your TV and AVR?

[crawfish]

A question... what make/model are your TV and AVR?

I was about to post on that. It turns out I do have HDMI-CEC; it's called "Bravia Sync" on my Sony TV and "Kuro Link" on my Pioneer AVR. What you described definitely has some advantages over using IR, but I still think I'd need IR and the JP1 method because I regularly use a bunch of discrete codes, and I have no idea if it is possible to convert IR codes to HDMI-CEC codes, or if there are HDMI-CEC equivalents for all the IR codes. I did a quick google search and didn't find anything for HDMI-CEC equivalent to this very fine Excel file which contains all the discrete codes for my Pioneer VSX-21TXH.

Regarding your last message, if Event Ghost can load Pronto codes and blast them, that's the sort of thing I would need. It would be equivalent to loading them into a JP1 remote via a device upgrade file which is what I do now, except I can use my remote directly for my non-PC devices, as it doesn't rely on the PC to receive the codes, translate, and then retransmit them; it just sends the correct codes itself. For the most part, I don't miss the ability to query device states; I have discrete codes for power on/off and input selection for both my TV and AVR, and long-pressing the device buttons on my Sony RM-VL610 executes macros I've recorded that perform Harmony-like "activities" to launch WMC or XBMC or whatever and configure the devices correctly.

Anyway, this has all been very interesting! I think if you have HDMI-CEC or other non-IR tech that does everything you need, Event Ghost would be the clear choice. OTOH, if you would have to set up a blaster to get everything working (and I would), I'd still consider the JP1 approach, which is like having a Harmony without any limitations. Heck of a learning curve to JP1, though.

[barnabas1969]

You don't need to convert the IR codes to HDMI-CEC. The software that comes with the RCAware device does it all for you. It's the simplest part of my setup. You can add an action in EG, and use drop-down boxes to choose what you want to send to a device. The devices are addressed on HDMI like 1.2.0.0. That would be HDMI port 1 on your TV, port 2 on your AVR, and nothing else in the path. If you had an HDMI switch plugged into the AVR, then it would be something like 1.2.1.0 (TV port 1, AVR port 2, switch port 1).

Every device manufacturer implements CEC differently. I will say that you will get at least transport control of every devce, power (with discreet on/off), and volume control.

The reason I asked about the model numbers is so I could lookup serial control for those devices. I see that your AVR does have it, and there is already an EG plugin for it here. With plugins, the work is already done for you. It's drag, drop, select options, and go. I will admit that I've modified some of the plugins that I've downloaded to add more features to them. It's not too difficult.

So what model is your TV?

[crawfish]

You don't need to convert the IR codes to HDMI-CEC. The software that comes with the RCAware device does it all for you.

That Excel file I linked to contains almost 400 IR codes for my receiver. All that would have to be enabled over HDMI-CEC to provide the same capabilities as IR. Apparently it is for RS232, as per this Pioneer document. I see it even has a volume-set command, to set the volume to a specific level, which is lacking in IR. I could use that! Hmmm , maybe it would be worth exploring this further. Like I said earlier, I don't want to start connecting my PC to my receiver with HDMI anyway, so RS232 would be the way I would want to go.

The reason I asked about the model numbers is so I could lookup serial control for those devices. I see that your AVR does have it, and there is already an EG plugin for it here. With plugins, the work is already done for you. It's drag, drop, select options, and go. I will admit that I've modified some of the plugins that I've downloaded to add more features to them. It's not too difficult.

So what model is your TV?

That's a file for a Pioneer TV, which I don't have. My receiver is the VSX-21TXH. The TV is a Sony KDL-40W4100. I could use HDMI-CEC with the TV.

[mdavej]

If you look at the HDMI CEC spec, it's only for basic control and auto power and input switching. There's no way even a fraction of those codes would be supported by your Pioneer over HDMI. The spec simply doesn't have room. I think the command address space is only 1 byte, so that's 256 possible commands. It's essentially meant to replace basic universal remote functionality. If you already have a universal remote, there's no point. Plus I've never heard of any PC HDMI interface that works with HDMI CEC. RS232 would be fine, and a lot of people do it, but it seems needlessly complex to me. Step back and think of what you actually need to do before pursuing what appears to be a Rube Goldberg kind of solution.

HDMI CEC isn't going to work they way you think. I do use it myself just to control a PS3 since it has no IR interface, but that's it. I put those other 400 commands for my AVR on my JP1 remote and use them in macros.

The main problem I have with EG and other PC based solutions is your PC has to be on to use them, and my PC is off unless I'm using Media Center. I use other devices for discs and music and video streaming. So my macros are stored and executed from my remote and go directly to my devices, ultimately via IR. I have a very sophisticated control system, yet I don't regularly use EG, RS232, IP or any of that stuff. RF and IR does everything I need quickly, easily and reliably. At the end of the day, I press a single button to accomplish a given task, and it always works flawlessly. I use an Xsight Touch just like barnabas plus a simple MCE IR dongle.

[crawfish]

If you look at the HDMI CEC spec, it's only for basic control and auto power and input switching. There's no way even a fraction of those codes would be supported by your Pioneer over HDMI. The spec simply doesn't have room. I think the command address space is only 1 byte, so that's 256 possible commands.

I haven't looked at the spec, but that's the sort of thing that's been underlying my skepticism.

It's essentially meant to replace basic universal remote functionality. If you already have a universal remote, there's no point. Plus I've never heard of any PC HDMI interface that works with HDMI CEC. RS232 would be fine, and a lot of people do it, but it seems needlessly complex to me. Step back and think of what you actually need to do before pursuing what appears to be a Rube Goldberg kind of solution.

I've been using JP1 for several years, and I've become quite adept at dealing with ReportMappingTable, RMIR device upgrades, and Autohotkey scripting. It doesn't get more Rube Goldberg. However, I have it all working very well and seamlessly for WMC, XBMC, TV, AVR, and BD player, and there is a lot of inertia when I consider moving to something else. If you've been following the discussion here, I've been trying to puzzle out if there would be any advantage to switching methods. The ability to send Volume-set with RS232 would be nice, and when executing macros, it would be a minor upgrade to only need to aim for the MCE IR receiver, which has excellent directional properties, unlike the TV and AVR. Occasionally, I do miss the TV or AVR when executing a macro, but if everything comes through the MCE receiver, it won't be a problem; heck, I can point my remote backwards and hit it.

HDMI CEC isn't going to work they way you think. I do use it myself just to control a PS3 since it has no IR interface, but that's it. I put those other 400 commands for my AVR on my JP1 remote and use them in macros.

The main problem I have with EG and other PC based solutions is your PC has to be on to use them, and my PC is off unless I'm using Media Center.

Yes, I mentioned that in an earlier message. It's not a huge disadvantage for me personally, though. The other disadvantage WRT straight IR I mentioned is that you would need a blaster for EG if you were unable to do everything in RS232, HDMI-CEC, or other non-IR method, and you couldn't get the codes into your remote. That's wouldn't be a problem for me as a JP1 user, but I wouldn't want to take on the complexity of EG and RS232 only to continue needing to use JP1, as I'm not buying a blaster.

I use other devices for discs and music and video streaming. So my macros are stored and executed from my remote and go directly to my devices, ultimately via IR. I have a very sophisticated control system, yet I don't regularly use EG, RS232, IP or any of that stuff. RF and IR does everything I need quickly, easily and reliably. At the end of the day, I press a single button to accomplish a given task, and it always works flawlessly. I use an Xsight Touch just like barnabas plus a simple MCE IR dongle.

We're in mostly the same place. For several years, I've used a Sony RM-VL610 as my primary remote and an RCA RCRP05B to teach it. I use RMIR to program the RCA with various device upgrades; I use lots of discrete codes that don't appear on my device remotes, and that's what the RCA is for, getting those codes into my Sony. I've written several messages here describing bits and pieces of this, most recently starting a thread on how to add additional skip back/forward commands to WMC. I've been working on a comprehensive document on JP1 and Autohotkey, but I've always realized it's very technical and Rube Goldberg hobbyist stuff, so I've been following the EventGhost discussion to see if it's any easier and whether it's as capable. I really wouldn't mind getting out of the JP1 business, so to speak.

[barnabas1969]

You're correct that CEC doesn't do everything. But it will do lots of things, including status information. There are several devices to facilitate it from a PC. I'm not sure why mdavej thinks they don't exist. I'm actually using one.

Sorry about linking to the wrong plugin. I'm sure one exists for your AVR. If it doesn't, it wouldn't be too difficult to modify the one for a different RS-232 receiver to add the commands for yours.

I haven't had much time to look at this thread today. I'll try to get back to it tomorrow or this weekend.

[mdavej]

You're correct that CEC doesn't do everything. But it will do lots of things, including status information. There are several devices to facilitate it from a PC. I'm not sure why mdavej thinks they don't exist. I'm actually using one.

Thanks for the correction. Looks like things have changed a lot since I last looked into this.

Crawfish, have you looked at IRPMaster? You could use that along with IRScope and an IR Widget to capture, encode/decode, and transmit any signal you're using a JP1 remote for today.

[crawfish]

Crawfish, have you looked at IRPMaster? You could use that along with IRScope and an IR Widget to capture, encode/decode, and transmit any signal you're using a JP1 remote for today.

Sorry, I don't see what that would do for me.

[barnabas1969]

The main problem I have with EG and other PC based solutions is your PC has to be on to use them, and my PC is off unless I'm using Media Center. I use other devices for discs and music and video streaming.

That's one big difference between you and me. My HTPC and my AVR are the only devices under my TV. The HTPC is an all-in-one device... it is my BluRay player, media streamer, etc. My goal was to eliminate as many "boxes" under the TV as possible, and to make all of the devices act as a single, integrated system (that's what I do for a living... automation and systems integration... so it was hard to resist).

The AVR has lots of features so that it can work as a media streamer too... including Internet radio stations, Pandora, and lots of other online services. It also acts as a DLNA client, and can play all of the music that is presented by WMP. I have full control of the AVR from my smartphone, so listening to music is a piece of cake from anywhere in my house and even out in the yard. In addition to HDMI-CEC, the AVR can be controlled via RS-232 and Ethernet. The command protocol is the same between the RS-232 and Ethernet interfaces, so I just use Ethernet for it. No reason to connect another cable when I'm already using Ethernet for all the Internet features of the AVR.

The TV has RS-232 control in addition to HDMI-CEC. For anything that is not controllable via CEC, I can use RS-232.

I have two ways to communicate with my Home Automation stuff... USB (it actually just shows up as a COM port) and Ethernet. I've not found a need to make EG communicate with the USB powerline modem yet. I use the powerline modem to configure my HA devices from the PC. I do use Ethernet to communicate with the HA controller though... for tasks like dimming the lights when starting a movie (with sunrise/sunset logic from the SunTracker plugin).

The ability to send Volume-set with RS232 would be nice, and when executing macros, it would be a minor upgrade to only need to aim for the MCE IR receiver, which has excellent directional properties, unlike the TV and AVR. Occasionally, I do miss the TV or AVR when executing a macro, but if everything comes through the MCE receiver, it won't be a problem; heck, I can point my remote backwards and hit it.

You can get EG and an RS-232 cable and begin experimenting with RS-232 control of your AVR without changing your existing setup. It will only cost you as much as an RS-232 cable (and/or a USB-serial adapter). If you have any programming ability whatsoever, you can take an existing plugin like the one for my AVR and modify it to fit your needs. Python isn't too difficult to learn. Once you get started, you'll find all kinds of things you can do with RS-232. I looked at the doc you linked for your AVR. There is a lot you can do with that.

The ability to "aim" at one single IR receiver (and I actually don't even need to pick up the remote anymore), plus the fact that I don't need to wait for a macro to finish on my remote control were high on my list of priorities.

I've written several messages here describing bits and pieces of this, most recently starting a thread on how to add additional skip back/forward commands to WMC. I've been working on a comprehensive document on JP1 and Autohotkey, but I've always realized it's very technical and Rube Goldberg hobbyist stuff, so I've been following the EventGhost discussion to see if it's any easier and whether it's as capable. I really wouldn't mind getting out of the JP1 business, so to speak.

I've seen some of your posts on this subject. I never needed any of that info though... because I can do all of what you have described with EG. I understand why you would like to get out of the JP1 stuff. It wasn't ideal for me. As for the "Rube Goldberg" comments... Yes, my setup is rather complex. But the end result is that any 5-year-old can operate my system. I no longer need to "teach" every visitor how to turn on the TV. As simple as it was to select "Activities -> All ON" on my remote, many people just couldn't figure it out. Now, they can simply pick up the remote (either my programmable one, OR the original TV remote) and simply press POWER. I've considered taking this to the next level, and linking a button on one of my wall switches so that it turns the TV on/off too... but I don't know if that's necessary... it would just be fun.

crawfish, I just thought of something that you would be interested to know: You don't want to use your AVR for HDMI switching, and I understand why. I just wanted you to know that you can still do that if you choose to buy the RCAware device. You can connect the PC directly to the TV, and then connect the AVR to one of the unused HDMI ports on your TV. Then, simply plug the RCAware device into one of the HDMI ports on your AVR (or TV) and it will be able to communicate with all of your HDMI devices. You see, the CEC protocol is transmitted to all devices on the bus... regardless of whether or not the device is currently-selected. Connecting it this way would have the effect that the AVR would not be in the path between your PC and your TV, but you would still have HDMI-CEC control of all the devices.

[rdy2go]

http://www.origenae.co.kr/en/accessory_rc197.htm

Harmony 300 also works great, although as some have pointed out elsewhere its buttons will wear out quickly. My main 300 is giving me fits after only 18 months or so. I can fix it, but it's giving me trouble when I try to pry it apart.

I ended up going with the OrigenAE. Works great for what I need. Thanks.