Frequency PCR Lock & SNR

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TheOsburnFamil

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Frequency PCR Lock & SNR

#1

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:18 pm

Hey Guys-- Looking for some guidance and thoughts here.

Amazingly enough, I've still got two InfiniTV 4 PCIe tuners that have been rockin along just fine and while very aging, my setup (8 CC + 2 ATSC w/4 360 extenders) still works great. At this point, Charter Spectrum still doesn't offer a viable whole-house solution and my only other option is Dish/DirecTV. Considering we know we are on the cusp of the next shift in DVR tech (cloud and BYOD boxes or apps), we just can't justify the $500 for a Tivo + 3x150 for the mini's, plus the subscription or livetime payment. We'd never recoup the costs.

Any-- to my problem... We recently noticed a few channels no longer tune with our Cetons but they work just fine with the CableCo box. TLC, USA, & FX HD. (The SD's tune fine with Ceton).
I've swapped cables, splitters, and also got two new CableCARDs and Mot SDV TA's. (btw, Charter actually re-paired them correctly the first time w/o having to explain anything!).
When looking in Ceton Tuner Diags, most channels in the 100k-200k Frequency range all lock in just fine with SNR between 35 & 38 db and Signal Level +/- 1dBmV. Incdentally my Cable Modem Upstream Power Level is around 44 dBmV (still well below 50). On channels in the 500k range I do notice the Signal Level will actually go to ~+5 or ~+6 dBmV. But that's still a good below the +/- 10dBmV.

Soo all of this is telling me my signal strength appears to be really really good based on my knowledge of what good should be.

Here's where it gets interesting. The channels I have a problem with all appear in the 100k frequency range. When they attempt to tune, the SNR dropps toe 21.0 dB (every time w/o fluctuating), Signal dropped to -7.3 dBmV (this will bounce a tenth) and then PCR Lock says Not Locked.

This happens on all tuners of each InfiniTV. This smells like a CableCO problem but after verifying signal, replacing the CC & TAs, I'm not sure what else to do. Thoughts?
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

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#2

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:58 pm

I may have stumbled on to something here. I think it's this frequency. I pulled the diagnostic channel map and both FX, USA, & TLC all use the same frequency but have different program/EIA's.
741 - FX HD - 105000 - 1 - 97.1
744 - USA HD - 105000 - 4 - 97.4
747 - Travel - 105000 - 2 - 97.2
796 - TLC HD - 105000 - 3 - 97.3

I confirmed Travel Channel also doesn't work. Didn't notice it before because, lets face it-- who watched the Travel Channel.

...so what does this mean? It can't be signal/tuner related can it? Something with just this one frequency?
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

cwinfield

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#3

Post by cwinfield » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:22 pm

How do you have it wired? Are you using moca or amps a loose connection at a tap or a crappy pigtail for the itv4 will all do what you describe.

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#4

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:43 pm

It's nothing fancy. No moca, no amps, and not a ton of splitters all over the place.

Main line coming in directly from the road to the outside box. Outside box line to a barrel connector and line inside to a 2-way -3.5. One line to the cable modem and the other to a 4-way -7 splitter. 2 lines from that go directly to each InfiniTV and 2 lines from that go directly to each TA. TA out's are capped.

That's it. It's about as simple as I can make it but I'm open to suggestions.
[EDIT]
Adding -- All coax is new over the past 5 years with compression fit ends. The coax is cut to length so there aren't massive run just rolled up or lying around. I'd say less than 150ft total. Each connection has a rubber boot.

Also, each Ceton is HW Ver 6829, FW Ver 15.1.13.152, Driver version 1.0.2.4
[/EDIT]
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

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#5

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:05 pm

cwinfield wrote:How do you have it wired? Are you using moca or amps a loose connection at a tap or a crappy pigtail for the itv4 will all do what you describe.
CableCARD Setup.png
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

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#6

Post by cwinfield » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:26 pm

I would definitely scrutinize the 4 way and pigtails. Should try a 2 way with out to TA to ITV4

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#7

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:36 pm

cwinfield wrote:I would definitely scrutinize the 4 way and pigtails. Should try a 2 way with out to TA to ITV4
I've tried a number of different splitters & combinations. All the way down to a straight single 2-way from the outside going directly to the cetons and not even having the cablemodem or TAs plugged in. No change. I'm open to the possibility that there's a problem with the dongles but I find it strange that both would go out at the same time and show the exact same problem. Especially given this is a basement set-it-and-forget-it configuration that never gets touched.

But stranger things have happened so I'd be happy to try swapping the dongles. My only question is, with Ceton gone-- how do I get replacements? I found something on amazon that looks about right but wouldn't mind confirmation from someone...

https://www.amazon.com/DHT-Electronics- ... FX67PA31HM

It says it's for Sat Radio but it looks like a pretty generic dongle to me. Thoughts?
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

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#8

Post by cwinfield » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:16 pm

I agree about both pigtails going bad which is why I was thinking the common tap. If you search for pigtail there is another discussion where that link is mentioned and in the q&a it is mentioned that it will work.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 20#p112220
Also some taps are made specifically for deca or moca and will filter out the other frequency which could be your case.

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#9

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:08 am

cwinfield wrote:I agree about both pigtails going bad which is why I was thinking the common tap. If you search for pigtail there is another discussion where that link is mentioned and in the q&a it is mentioned that it will work.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 20#p112220
Also some taps are made specifically for deca or moca and will filter out the other frequency which could be your case.
I appreciate the advice & suggestions. The dongles are cheap so I went and ordered them. Might as well give it a shot seeing I have no other alternative. The splitters are older that the Ceton's so I guess it's possible those could be going. I'll admit I don't have a good idea of what's considered a "good" splitter for this use-case. Given I have a cablemodem, two ceton infinitv4's and two motoroloa sdv ta's.... can you recommend a good splitter combo? I can certainly go to Amazon and order 'em.

Thanks again for the advice.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

cwinfield

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#10

Post by cwinfield » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:11 am


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#11

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:00 pm

So just a quick update for the thread. Turns out I was mistaken in my OP and my cableco provided box wasn't getting those channels either. We live in a neighborhood that has a facebook group so I threw it out to them (don't know why I didn't think of this sooner)... and everyone in the neighborhood is having the same problem. Nobody is tuning these 4 channels that all happen to be on the same frequency! So I'll be contacting Charter to let them know.

At least I can stop buying & replacing parts.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

cwinfield

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#12

Post by cwinfield » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:08 pm

Best of luck, hope they find the problem and don't give you the run around.

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#13

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:51 pm

Closing the loop on this one. Charter guys came out. After about three hours and multiple guys out here they discovered the line itself from the road to the outside of the house is the problem. Splitters and internal lines were all just fine and after replacing that line, all is good again. Glad they fixed it and it wasn't my problem!
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

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#14

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:10 am

As an added bonus I got all new antronix splitters for free!
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

cwinfield

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#15

Post by cwinfield » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:16 am

Glad to hear your all fixed. How does your signal look now? Did you keep the same wiring config or did you make any changes?

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#16

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:57 am

cwinfield wrote:Glad to hear your all fixed. How does your signal look now? Did you keep the same wiring config or did you make any changes?
Thanks. Well strangely enough, SNR didn't really changed. Downstream power stayed about the same (it was always +/- 1) but Upstream did seem to improve a few db. It was always hovering right or near 48-50 but is now in the low 40s.

Clearly whatever it was had to do with the line they replaced from the road coming into the house. All the signals said it should be working but it clearly was not. At one point, they were so unsure that they finally said "screw it-- will you let us run a new line directly from the road into the Charter box directly as a test? we think it's the line buried from the road to the house but the only way to be sure is to temporarily run this directly through the front door." Seriously-- that happened! Sure enough, when they bypassed the buried line, everything worked instantly.

In the end-- I got a new external antronix single-pole tap with the tap going to the Charter provided cable box and the Out going to a new 3-way antronix CMC-2003U. the -3.5 is going to the cablemodem and the two -7s are going directly to each TA. The out's on the TAs are going to their respective Ceton. So in total, one tap and one three-way splitter. And, a new road-to-house line.

All is right with the world again.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

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