Where and When to use POE filter?

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Crash2009

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Where and When to use POE filter?

#1

Post by Crash2009 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:15 am

Been getting some conflicting advice regarding the POE filter being installed in front of the splitter going to the ETH6 and TA.

Looks like some of the Tivo guys only POE the TA. Is that because some of the Tivo's are MoCA adapters and some are not? or are all Tivo's ready for MoCA.

COX says POE the TA only. Is that because they expect you to be using a MoCA "Retail Device" i.e. Tivo?

I'm leaning towards Eric's advice. He says we should POE the ETH 6 to prevent interference and improve MoCA performance throughout the rest of the network. I thought I would kill 2 birds with 1 stone and POE the splitter. If the POE can prevent MoCA from getting to the TA/ETH, can a POE be used to isolate various cable runs?

Anybody out there running MoCa and NOT using a POE in front of an ETH6?

What are your thoughts on looping the first adapter (from the modem to the adapter), and placing the Primary Circuit as the 1st hop from out? Any performance loss placing the Primary Circuit 3 or 4 splitters down the line?
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PoeCoxMocaTivo..JPG
SimpleMoCAwithETH6andTA_001.jpg

signcarver

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#2

Post by signcarver » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:36 pm

Typically most new Tivos "rely" on MoCA for WHDVR to the minis so you don't want to block them. With cable one should "always" use one at point of entry (for fios don't bother) On the MoCA adapters you are showing the "TV Out" should already be filtered on the adapters. The TAs and most Modems do need them (that is why most new modems have them built in) usually it does not effect TV signals but sometimes a harmonic (reflection) does (I have had more problems with the mini connector of the pcie boards so I have always speculated that that "conversion" is what "causes" more issue with them then the USB, ETH or prime but haven't been able to prove it.

Lately I have been getting the motorola adapters (I used to be able to walk into my best buy and pick them up, today when I checked was the first time I haven't seen them in stock locally but haven't had to get one for a couple of months)... these do not have a TV or Modem "out" and the kit provides splitters and a flilter. As a result the MoCA filter is "needed" in more places including my prime and USB i4, But I have found that it works best to lower the power level to 70-80% and then I can't find any problems often even on the pcie cards even without filters. One of the things I like about them is they get an ip address so I can check on things and change them without going to some configuration mode (every now and then I may need to reboot one adapter to get the webpage to show but other than that the adapters work fine but as mentioned, they use splitters rather than have an "out" which can be an issue for some. Also one of them has a 4 port "hub" but from what I can tell is really a switch not a hub as I still get full duplex on what I plug into them but I usually hook it to a switch anyway as usually I need 6+ ports in any room.

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Crash2009

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#3

Post by Crash2009 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:54 pm

Thanks Signcarver,

Finally "a product with a manual". What a novel approach in the MoCA Biz. All my questions are answered now. Arris-Motorola Rules!

JohnW248

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#4

Post by JohnW248 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:05 am

This little paper might prove informational for the new user (and me) as to frequencies and placement in the bandwidth for MoCA and various examples of deployment

http://www.arrisi.com/dig_lib/white_pap ... ooting.pdf.

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Crash2009

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#5

Post by Crash2009 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:25 pm

John,

Great document. Covers the question "Any performance loss placing the Primary Circuit 3 or 4 splitters down the line?" and gave us the correct terminology (Primary Circuit = Network Controller). Also supports the questions Signcarver answered. I think he read this one a time or two previously...

Backing up to the question of POE in front of the splitter to the ETH6/TA question, the answer to that is YES (if) a MoCA signal is projected past the splitter. Interesting that some of these devices (maybe all) can be tuned/adjusted through the device webpage or a secret configuration mode. However, if suggested cabling recommendations are adhered to, no configuration is necessary due to the self adjustment characteristics of the MoCA protocol.

Here is the document I referred to previously.

https://arris.my.salesforce.com/sfc/p/# ... vg_5vR054=

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#6

Post by Crash2009 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:47 pm

Thanks to you guys, I found the configuration directions for Actiontek ECB2500, as well as the configuration utility. It's not a secret any more.

http://support.actiontec.com/doc_files/ ... .1_NCS.pdf

If the link ever expires, PM me, I have the files.
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Configuration Utility v1.1.zip
(3.29 MiB) Downloaded 176 times

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#7

Post by Crash2009 » Fri May 01, 2015 1:06 pm

Search "serious high demodulation errors" and you come up with the three in the picture. Is it possible that a neighbor with MoCA and "without a POE", can pollute the signal to the house next door?

Q: What is the recommended maximum range between units?
A: Recommended maximum of 300 feet of cable between the root node and the coax outlet.

I suppose that answers that.
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#8

Post by mdavej » Fri May 01, 2015 2:18 pm

This is great info. But I don't understand why you are doing this at all. I have Moca all over my house on it's own network physically isolated from my cable tv service, so no need for POE filters at all. Take your incoming cable and split out to your modem and Ceton tuner, that's it. The rest of your coax network can be disconnected from the incoming cable tv service and used own its own with Moca, DECA, whatever you want.

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#9

Post by Billyray520 » Fri May 01, 2015 5:37 pm

Crash2009 wrote:Thanks to you guys, I found the configuration directions for Actiontek ECB2500, as well as the configuration utility. It's not a secret any more.

http://support.actiontec.com/doc_files/ ... .1_NCS.pdf

If the link ever expires, PM me, I have the files.
According to the readme.txt file included in the download, it is ONLY for the ECB2200

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#10

Post by Crash2009 » Fri May 01, 2015 5:59 pm

That file is what they give you for the 2500. Check the website for yourself.

http://www.actiontec.com/251.html then click on support, then downloads.

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#11

Post by Crash2009 » Fri May 01, 2015 6:45 pm

mdavej wrote:This is great info. But I don't understand why you are doing this at all. I have Moca all over my house on it's own network physically isolated from my cable tv service, so no need for POE filters at all. Take your incoming cable and split out to your modem and Ceton tuner, that's it. The rest of your coax network can be disconnected from the incoming cable tv service and used own its own with Moca, DECA, whatever you want.
How do you manage to isolate MoCA if it is attached to the same splitter as your cable service? Are you running dual supply lines?

It appears to me that MoCA has never been discussed (in detail) around here. Since taking an interest in it a few months ago, I thought I would throw it out there for discussion.

EDIT: after re-reading what you said, yours is not even connected to the incoming cable line? Does your MoCA network Not have internet? or if it does, how does it get it?
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#12

Post by mdavej » Fri May 01, 2015 7:09 pm

Crash2009 wrote:How do you manage to isolate MoCA if it is attached to the same splitter as your cable service?
I don't attach to the same splitter as my cable service. That's my point. If you run WMC (or similar), you only need to connect your cable service to your modem and your tuner(s). Run the rest of the coax in your house on its own network. WMC users don't typically have any other cable company equipment (set top boxes or DVRs), so that's why I wondered why you needed catv everywhere. In my case, catv comes into my house, then to a 2 way splitter that goes to my modem and my tuner. The rest of my coax goes to 5 other rooms, each having a Moca device at the termination that connects to an extender. There are no catv signals on this part of my network, hence no need for a POE.

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#13

Post by Crash2009 » Fri May 01, 2015 7:28 pm

mdavej wrote:Separate Network
Are you running a Separate Router for the MoCA and just using MoCA as the transport to the extenders?

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#14

Post by mdavej » Fri May 01, 2015 11:24 pm

Crash2009 wrote:
mdavej wrote:Separate Network
Are you running a Separate Router for the MoCA and just using MoCA as the transport to the extenders?
I have a single router for everything. But MoCA isn't just for my extenders. I have no ethernet cables in my upper floor and no easy way to run them, so coax is my LAN up there, with MoCA adapters at each node, plus one at my router downstairs. It serves a couple of other PCs, repeaters, game consoles, streaming boxes, etc. I actually use DECA since I could get that hardware at a fraction of the cost of MoCA. Same thing, different frequency.

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#15

Post by Crash2009 » Sat May 02, 2015 3:23 am

How do you connect the wires? Is this the way you did it?
I was wondering if that would work.

coax to Cable Modem, Wan eth to router, router switch port to deca, deca coax to the upper floor etc, coax to deca adapters, Ethernet to devices

Are you getting the advertised throughput from from/to your Ethernet devices?

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#16

Post by mdavej » Sat May 02, 2015 7:47 pm

Yes, that's what I did. I haven't done extensive testing, but the few I've checked are indeed getting 100Mbps as they should. My internet is only 64Mbps, so that's plenty for internet and video to all my extenders. I use one of these at each node, since they're only $13 each:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DirecTV-Rec ... rmvSB=true

Keep in mind, unlike Moca, they are incompatible with catv signals, hence the need to keep them isolated.

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#17

Post by Crash2009 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:18 pm

The link in post #4 has stopped working. The .pdf that the link referenced to has been wrapped in a .rar and uploaded.....as well as a couple others.
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SBM1000 User Guide.rar
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CiscoMocaInstall-Troubleshooting.rar
(572.76 KiB) Downloaded 107 times
MoCA_Troubleshooting.rar
(2.36 MiB) Downloaded 128 times

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#18

Post by Crash2009 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:23 pm

Here is the configuration Guide for the ECB2500.

as well as the Configuration Utility.
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Configuration Utility v1.1.zip
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ECB2500_Configuration_Guide_v1.1_NCS.rar
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