Stay with WMC or move on?

jeepman

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#21

Post by jeepman » Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:30 am

dab2kab wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:09 am Unless there is something specific that you think is superior about plex or nextpvr, i wouldnt switch. Not getting security updates isnt a big deal. Ive been running 8.1 and havent updated it in years. If anything, your WMC will likely be more reliable once it stops getting updates that might break it. I still use 8.1, my only concern is the drop of software support going forward for other programs as I use my WMC box for daily computing tasks. The big one that jumps out is that chrome will stop being updated on 8.1 in early February...
I have not updated my WMC 8.1 once I got it working again, so I think I will use it as long as I can. I do need to figure out why it doesn't wake up anymore from Sleep to record, even though that worked for months, but other than that, I am happy with WMC 8.1.

Ed 

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#22

Post by Ed  » Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:05 pm

TVTechTB wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:57 am Windows 8.1 support ends January 10.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/1381119 ... e-now.html

Still have cable TV with a cable card, SiliconDust Prime with some protected channels. Should I keep running Windows 8.1 with WMC or move to NextPVR or Plex? Not sure if WMC on Windows 10 will be stable enough for the rest of my household. I don't mind losing the few protected channels. I have 2017'ish Apple TV box for streaming. The Plex app on Apple TV is not bad but I have run into streaming issues with 4K video from my Plex PVR.

Any opinions welcome!
I was using Plex for Movie/TV Bluray rips since 2014 and WMC still for DVR until 2018. Then I switched from my WMC PC/Plex server to just Plex even for DVR on a Synology 918+. Plex is the way to go IMO. On a Synology 920+ NAS while you can still get one, preferably. This way you can handle HW transcoding & HDR tonemapping of 4k HDR content in the future if you acquire some (either UHD or ATSC 3.0 recordings or whatever). The 'set it and forget it' rep a Synology gets is true well deserved, even compared to the most 'oh well I never have to touch it' Windows PC. The only catch with a Synology is it takes some getting used to how THEY want you to do things, especially after the DSM 7.0 upgrade. Still worth it. I also don't like subscriptions so having to continuously pay for guide data in WMC was a big factor too. Paid for Plex Pass once and that's it. I use it with Xfinity cable through my HOA and a HDHR Prime. All my channels are copy freely though. You can even share your Plex content with others through Plex (including DVR recordings and tuners/tuner streams), even if they do or don't have a Plex Server of their own. Me and someone from here share our Plex servers, helps with content discovery and if you just wanna watch something without 'acquiring' it.

Copy Once stuff aside, the Plex software is what I wanted the WMC software to always be. I love it. Edit: To add, I have been using WMC since 2006/Vista.

passinos

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#23

Post by passinos » Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:15 am

Ed  wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:05 pm
TVTechTB wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:57 am Windows 8.1 support ends January 10.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/1381119 ... e-now.html

Still have cable TV with a cable card, SiliconDust Prime with some protected channels. Should I keep running Windows 8.1 with WMC or move to NextPVR or Plex? Not sure if WMC on Windows 10 will be stable enough for the rest of my household. I don't mind losing the few protected channels. I have 2017'ish Apple TV box for streaming. The Plex app on Apple TV is not bad but I have run into streaming issues with 4K video from my Plex PVR.

Any opinions welcome!
I was using Plex for Movie/TV Bluray rips since 2014 and WMC still for DVR until 2018. Then I switched from my WMC PC/Plex server to just Plex even for DVR on a Synology 918+. Plex is the way to go IMO. On a Synology 920+ NAS while you can still get one, preferably. This way you can handle HW transcoding & HDR tonemapping of 4k HDR content in the future if you acquire some (either UHD or ATSC 3.0 recordings or whatever). The 'set it and forget it' rep a Synology gets is true well deserved, even compared to the most 'oh well I never have to touch it' Windows PC. The only catch with a Synology is it takes some getting used to how THEY want you to do things, especially after the DSM 7.0 upgrade. Still worth it. I also don't like subscriptions so having to continuously pay for guide data in WMC was a big factor too. Paid for Plex Pass once and that's it. I use it with Xfinity cable through my HOA and a HDHR Prime. All my channels are copy freely though. You can even share your Plex content with others through Plex (including DVR recordings and tuners/tuner streams), even if they do or don't have a Plex Server of their own. Me and someone from here share our Plex servers, helps with content discovery and if you just wanna watch something without 'acquiring' it.

Copy Once stuff aside, the Plex software is what I wanted the WMC software to always be. I love it. Edit: To add, I have been using WMC since 2006/Vista.
Did you look at Channels DVR? I am torn between Plex and Channels. going to run a x2 Prime with NUC DVR server with 2 clients(Apple TV). love to have tuner sharing and central recording.

dab2kab

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#24

Post by dab2kab » Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:54 pm

I use channels pretty much exclusively now, specifically for its tv everywhere recording capabilities. I only use WMC in the rare event i need to record an OTA station.

Ed  wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:05 pm

Did you look at Channels DVR? I am torn between Plex and Channels. going to run a x2 Prime with NUC DVR server with 2 clients(Apple TV). love to have tuner sharing and central recording.

proddick

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#25

Post by proddick » Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:14 pm

Every year or so I look at the alternatives and go "Meh". My 8.1 MCE boxes are dedicated (one VM, one physical) and aren't used for anything else so security updates don't worry me too much. I may take a look at Channels this year (as supported in UK) but I am not sure why I would pay? It doesn't give me any facility that I am currently missing. Plex has a horrible UI - IMHO.

mercalia

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#26

Post by mercalia » Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:03 pm

WMC works fine in the UK even for terrestial TV Freeview, which supplies its own EPG. Only the HD channels require a differnt sources EPG. Standard defn TV seems to gone up in quality over time

javajohnnv

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#27

Post by javajohnnv » Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:50 pm

I knew that Windows 8.1 was reaching end of support, and I knew that Microsoft was trying to kill off Windows Media Center after it ended the program guide service, and a series of updates that made WMC inoperative. Accidental or intentional? We’ll never know.
I had been planning to use WMC until the very end of my Schedules Direct subscription. However, my 10-year-old HTPC that I built when I dumped Direct TV had its own retirement plans. When the hard drive seized in early January, I took it as a sign that it was time to let go. After being a WMC user since the very first days of Windows Vista, I decided to go a different direction. I dusted off a six-year-old CORE i5 Dell NUC and installed Ubuntu Linux and Plex. A lifetime Plex Pass for $120 is the least expensive way to setup an OTA DVR and works perfectly with my old HDHomeRun tuner. Overall, it was a good experience, there were a few new things I needed to learn. The biggest challenge was making sure Plex had the required permissions to write to the hard drive. And it is annoying that Peacock does not currently support any browser on Linux.
Windows Media Center was a great program that never got the support from Microsoft that it deserved. I will miss it. A big thanks to the Windows Media Center community for all your help and support over the years. You have been awesome.

jeepman

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#28

Post by jeepman » Fri May 19, 2023 5:31 pm

javajohnnv wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:50 pm I knew that Windows 8.1 was reaching end of support, and I knew that Microsoft was trying to kill off Windows Media Center after it ended the program guide service, and a series of updates that made WMC inoperative. Accidental or intentional? We’ll never know.
I had been planning to use WMC until the very end of my Schedules Direct subscription. However, my 10-year-old HTPC that I built when I dumped Direct TV had its own retirement plans. When the hard drive seized in early January, I took it as a sign that it was time to let go. After being a WMC user since the very first days of Windows Vista, I decided to go a different direction. I dusted off a six-year-old CORE i5 Dell NUC and installed Ubuntu Linux and Plex. A lifetime Plex Pass for $120 is the least expensive way to setup an OTA DVR and works perfectly with my old HDHomeRun tuner. Overall, it was a good experience, there were a few new things I needed to learn. The biggest challenge was making sure Plex had the required permissions to write to the hard drive. And it is annoying that Peacock does not currently support any browser on Linux.
Windows Media Center was a great program that never got the support from Microsoft that it deserved. I will miss it. A big thanks to the Windows Media Center community for all your help and support over the years. You have been awesome.
I am still a hold out since in my area Cable Cards are still supported. I even got a survey from Spectrum about 18 months ago asking what I like my Cable Card for, and I let it be clear to please do not mothball cable cards. We'll see if I had any sway, but 18 months has gone by and I still have a functional setup.

unclebun

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#29

Post by unclebun » Tue May 23, 2023 1:58 pm

For me it happened when they received an upgrade to their equipment. We are in a formerly Charter cable area. We only have a couple of encrypted channels on our digital package, and a year or two ago they stopped working and the tuning adapter started just blinking, never locking in. After several calls to support and two technicians and then finally a visit from the technicians' supervisor, they concluded that a recent equipment upgrade to make them more compatible with the Time-Warner network must have disabled the ability for tuning adapters to lock on. So although we get all the unencrypted channels with the cablecard, we can't get the encrypted ones.

jeepman

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#30

Post by jeepman » Tue May 23, 2023 5:57 pm

unclebun wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 1:58 pm For me it happened when they received an upgrade to their equipment. We are in a formerly Charter cable area. We only have a couple of encrypted channels on our digital package, and a year or two ago they stopped working and the tuning adapter started just blinking, never locking in. After several calls to support and two technicians and then finally a visit from the technicians' supervisor, they concluded that a recent equipment upgrade to make them more compatible with the Time-Warner network must have disabled the ability for tuning adapters to lock on. So although we get all the unencrypted channels with the cablecard, we can't get the encrypted ones.
I am not even sure which ones are encrypted for us, but we don't have any "pay TV" channels, just the lowest tier to get a discount on our internet portion. But, I did find this on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/ ... _cards_to/

Not a good sign, and it seems that my SiliconDust will be worthless pretty soon. I have had this system so long, that I will be sad, but maybe it is time for me to investigate alternatives, and maybe even save some money. Further, we are moving to community at the end of the year, or early next year that is a different provider than Spectrum, and I see they do support CableCards so maybe I will get lucky and just keep chugging along!

Space

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#31

Post by Space » Wed May 24, 2023 10:42 pm

unclebun wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 1:58 pm For me it happened when they received an upgrade to their equipment. We are in a formerly Charter cable area. We only have a couple of encrypted channels on our digital package, and a year or two ago they stopped working and the tuning adapter started just blinking, never locking in. After several calls to support and two technicians and then finally a visit from the technicians' supervisor, they concluded that a recent equipment upgrade to make them more compatible with the Time-Warner network must have disabled the ability for tuning adapters to lock on. So although we get all the unencrypted channels with the cablecard, we can't get the encrypted ones.
Just a small clarification...

The CableCard is used to decrypt encrypted cable channels. If you only had a few encrypted channels, then you would not need the CableCard to view most of the channels (these are called ClearQAM channels).

I suspect you are confusing "encrypted channels" with "copy protected channels".

These are two different things. Both are encrypted, but "copy protected channels" introduce more restrictive permissions as to what you can do with the channel content.

With regular encrypted channels, you are allowed to decrypt them (with the CableCard) and then save them as non-encrypted video files or can watch them on non-HDCP compliant TVs/monitors/devices.

With copy protected channels, you are allowed to decrypt them so that you can view them and record them, but it is required that you can only view them on HDCP compliant devices and you must RE-ENCRYPT the video before you save it to a file. That encrypted video file is only allowed to be played back on the same machine that created it. You also need a special "validation" (as opposed to just "authentication") between your cable provider and CableCard device in order for copy-protected programming to be viewable.

I'm not sure how the tuning adapter fits in here, as that is a separate issue and is not directly related to copy protected channels.

unclebun

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#32

Post by unclebun » Fri May 26, 2023 12:20 pm

All I know is when the tuning adapter could no longer obtain a lock, and the technicians couldn't fix it despite trying three new tuning adapters, and hours of whatever it is they do, three channels that are in a certain frequency range don't work.

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#33

Post by Space » Fri May 26, 2023 10:27 pm

If the channels that don't work are SDV then they don't have a specific frequency. The purpose of the tuning adapter is to request a frequency when you "tune" to the SDV channel, if one of the SDV frequencies are available (i.e.: the frequencies available in your service area are not all used up by other customers/channels) then it starts broadcasting that channel on one of the frequencies and tells your tuning adapter what frequency to tune to.

SDV is a way of offering less popular channels to customers without having to dedicate channels/frequencies to them. So, for instance, your provider may have 5 SDV channels/frequencies, but 10 actual channels that use those SDV channels/frequencies. This means if 5 customers in your area are tuning one of those 10 channels (and not the same channel as another customer) then when you try to tune the 6th SDV channel, you will be unable to, since all the allocated 5 SDV frequencies/channels are already in use.

Also, when you are hooking up a tuning adapter, you should not hook your tuner to the tuning adapter using the coaxial cable. Tuning adapters are notorious for degrading the signal that passes through them, so what you should do is first put a 2-way splitter on the cable, then hook one side to your tuner and the other to the tuning adapter. Of course then you would hook the USB cable from the tuning adapter to your tuner, or to the PC (depending on which kind of tuner you have).

unclebun

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#34

Post by unclebun » Sat May 27, 2023 10:31 pm

The frequency range thing is what the cable technicians told me. The three channels that didn't work are all in the same frequency range according to them. But they worked until the tuning adapter(s) could no longer obtain a lock.

guho

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#35

Post by guho » Sun May 28, 2023 6:25 pm

I am still using WMC on my Windows 8.1 pro x64 HTPC. I use it as a fallback from SageTV. It still works great with all copy once channels such as HBO and I have applied all Microsoft updates. It's getting harder and harder because some of my other software on this server such as Plex media server and Milestone Xprotect can't be upgraded to the latest versions, which require at least Windows 10.

mercalia

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#36

Post by mercalia » Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:09 am

Given that MS have a W10 app store I am puzzled that they never added it there for those that want it. No need to offer schedules and more as there are alternatives ( they know about). Such a waste to let such great software go bye bye

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